Site Meter

Tuesday, September 10, 2019

Has 21st century conservatism contributed anything useful at all ?

This is a question I haven't asked myself. I have long looked for reasonable and reasonably honest conservatives. It is frustrating, because I have found many, but few are still conservative. I don't want to get distracted from my distraction, but there is a pattern of me finding a conservative whom I consider reasonable, then that guy breaking with the conservative movement within a year.

The new topic is conservative ideas. The question is is there any conservative thought which is worth consideration and which they hadn't already written and said by 1900. I suppose this might be considered an unfair question, since I demand something new from a school centered on suspicion of the new. However, they have embraced many new and worthless ideas and proposals (see below) so I don't think I am being unfair.

This is a long very self indulgent post. It is twitter overload. I am going to

1) bring a twitter discussion over here

2) try to think of worthwhile 21st century conservative ideas.

3) try to think of worthwhile 21st century non conservative ideas (to be fair -- it might just be that my effort under 2 fails because of my ignorance or my interpretation of "worthwhile" and "2st century").

OK the twitter thread (which will make it painfully clear why I surfed over to blogger I mean "4.1/3" really ???).

It starts with this very interesting post on challenges to liberalism and liberals' responses.

Ross Douthat asked a constructive and interesting (implied) question

Ross Douthat @DouthatNYT

18h

The question I'm left with at the end of this interesting @zackbeauchamp crisis-of-liberalism survey is whether he thinks there's anything that liberalism can learn or drawn on from the *right* in order to survive and flourish anew:

I replied @robertwaldmann

obviously the reason you are left with that question is that neither he nor you can think of anything useful that anyone can learn from conservatives. The reason is that all alleged conservative insights have been disproven by massive evidence

In fact I challenge you. I suspect the answer will be to claim for conservatism universal values and widespread beliefs or to pretend that the only alternative to conservatism is something like Marxism. I say conservatism has the same epistemic standing as astrology.

Dilan Esper contributed reasonable thoughts aiming for constructive discussion. I want to thank Dilan Esper for being helpful and constructive. I fear my tone on twitter and here does not communicate my sincere appreciation of a good faith effort. Also MuchTL:DR , his effort confirms my prediction.

@dilanesper

9h

When you get away from electoral politics and into more abstract areas, I can think of some conservative ideas that have quite a lot of epistemic value.

E.g., the law of unintended consequences; foreign policy realism; the importance of developers in cities; etc.

I overflowed

Robert Waldmann @robertwaldmann

1/3)The law of unintended consequences has, I think, always been universally recognized (in theory often by people who ignore it). This is one of many examples of conservatives claiming as their own ideas which belong to everyone.

2/3) I have never understood what "foreign policy realism" means. I note that neoconservatives are conservatives too. I think realism vs whatever else is possible is a division among conservatives and non conservatives.

2.1/3) If there is a yes or no question, both conservatives and non conservatives are divided, and the correct answer is yes, that answer is not a contribution of conservatism to thought.

3/3) I agree you can't have decent housing without developers. Just look what a hell hole Singapore is. I think your point is that there are NIMBYs who argue against development because developers seek profit. Not all people who accept profit as non/theft are conservative.

4/3) I think we can agree that FDR was not a conservative. In foreign policy, he worked with Stalin and the Mafia. Realists have nothing to teach him. He also worked with profit seeking developers. He was a human being so he knew of the risk of unintended consequences.

4.1/3). Give me an explanation of what useful thought conservatives have contributed which does not imply that F Roosevelt was a conservative.

Also, My question here was about the 21st century conservative thought. "I guess this isn’t the place to ask for an indication of any useful contribution of 21st century conservatism, but I ask here too."

What has conservatism done for anyone in the past 19 years ?

Ooops I asked it only there and not on twitter. Anyway it's the question I address here.

To go on even longer on the twitter thread, I really think conservatives regularly claim that ideas, principles, and values which are widely to universally shared belong to conservatism. This is a form of the straw man argument. I think of Tom Lehrer on the folk song army "join the folk song army ... We're against poverty war and injustice/ unlike the rest of you squares". I note in passing that, for a penetrating critique of a fault of conservatives, I quote a liberal mocking other liberals and (above all) himself.

There can be unintended consequences is both totally obvious and also (if related at all) the definition of conservatism. Esper's first polite constructive effort to answer my question amounts to saying "you ask if conservatism has anything to offer which isn't obvious to non conservatives, well conservatism by definition, has something useful to offer to all those squares who think actions can only have their intended consequences"

That's better than "foreign policy realism" which is, as far as I can tell, a meaningless slogan roughly equally likely to be uttered by conservatives and non conservatives.

Finally the other defense of conservatism -- the claim that every non Leninist is conservative. The claim is that the quest for profits is not always harmful, that profit seeking entities can sometimes do something useful, that we should make peace with at least some traces of capitalism. Hell really any non Stalinist as even Lenin accepted the New Economic Policy (NEP).

Here I think the issue is also a bit of motivated reasoning (OK interested error) where people who own homes and want to get a high price declare it is virtuous for them to attempt to block competitors and also people act as if they have a right not only to their own property but to everything else they want like nice views and plenty of parking and other people can just go live in tents (or suburbs). The point is that one doesn't have to be conservative to be YIMBY and it isn't true that only conservatives accept the quest for profit as sometimes tolerable.

I'd say the sincere effort consists of 3 thoughts which fall into 3 categories

1) "to claim for conservatism universal values and widespread beliefs"

2) two words (which together mean roughly nothing) the use of which has almost zero correlation with conservatism.

3) "to pretend that the only alternative to conservatism is something like Marxism."

OK useful conservative contributions to thought in the 21st century. I draw a blank.

Harmful conservative ideas. I will leave Trump out of it. The response of some conservatives to Trump has been dismal while others have bravely stated the obvious. In any case, I don't blame conservatism for Trump.

1. Social security partial privatization. This was a way to allow people to bear more risk and send lots of money to financial service providers. As widely perceived, it had no redeeming social value.

2. Medicare privatization. This builds on the 20th century conservative failure Medicare Advantage which served to privatize public money. It was based on contradictory promises that it was guaranteed to cost less and to provide at least as good insurance. This was a case of Paul Ryan ordering the tides to stop.

3. Privatizing the Veterans administration the VA. Here there was a VA scandal because the VA did not keep a promise that no other health care provider even makes. It was a scandal, because it was a matter of public and congressional interest because the VA is public. The VA ranks at the very top in patient satisfaction and estimates of outcomes. These are published facts which conservatives sincerely perceive as absurdities.

4. The deficit will eat your children. We are turning into Greece.

5. Deficits don't matter and/or tax cuts lead to higher revenues.

6. The Fed is degrading the currency. There will be high inflation maybe hyper inflation.

7. The limits on presidential power should be completely ignored 2001-2009, strictly enforced 2009-2016, and ignored 2017 - now.

8 Federalism and the Supreme Court should design Seattle school districts and well come on anyone who says "federalism" is bullshitting.

9 reform the tax code to introduce a distinction between business income (taxed at a low rate) and labot income disguised as business income (taxed at a high rate). I have to give them credit. It is very hard to make the US Tax code more messy than it was.

10 2001 is time for a "kinder gentler" SEC

11 Invade Iraq

12 Repeal Obamacare and figure out a replacement written in secret in McConnell's office but this isn't our plan it's just a placeholder to get to the conference committee which will write an excellent bill.

OH hell I am ignoring all space limits, but I just can't list all the horrible 21st century conservative ideas. Many were opposed by some conservatives. Many were supported by many non conservatives. Most have nothing to do with caution, respect for tradition or awareness of the risk of unintended consequences.

Good 21st century ideas

1) Hawaii hope. The idea is swift sure punishment works better than rare severe punishment. This is not a new idea, Cesare Beccaria made the argument in the 18th century. It is a new idea to test parolees with drug problems once a week and lock them up for a night if they fail (or skip) a test. It worked.

2 Also 24/7 sobriety.

3 Also grow your own marijuana laws.

That's 3 and I learned all of them from one non-conservative Mark Kleiman.

4) Moving to opportunity works. A 2oth century experiment but the proof only was collected in the 21st century.

5) access to birth control pills at ages 18-20 without parental permission makes a huge difference.

6) high rise public housing causes crime.

that's 3 more I learned from one non conservative Larry Katz.

7) higher minimum wages cause tiny to surprisingly signed effects on employment (started 20th century I guess)

8) low skilled immigration has small effects on the wages of the few domestic workers who aren't helped.

9) there sure isn't a labor demand curve see 7 and 8.

Those are all from Card and Krueger.

OK so I am getting to economists, but there are super genius conservative economists. Why do they waste their brains defending the indefensible.

Look I really really can't list good ideas of the 21st century. But there are many of them. I can't think of any which are in any way a fruit of conservatism. Really not one. I draw a blank.

22 comments:

Dark Avenger said...

Prof Kleiman was on the record saying he wanted to help MJ prohibition “work”.

As for the rest of 21st Century Conservatism, this statement some 80+ years old still applies:

As for the Republicans -- how can one regard seriously a frightened, greedy, nostalgic huddle of tradesmen and lucky idlers who shut their eyes to history and science, steel their emotions against decent human sympathy, cling to sordid and provincial ideals exalting sheer acquisitiveness and condoning artificial hardship for the non-materially-shrewd, dwell smugly and sentimentally in a distorted dream-cosmos of outmoded phrases and principles and attitudes based on the bygone agricultural-handicraft world, and revel in (consciously or unconsciously) mendacious assumptions (such as the notion that real liberty is synonymous with the single detail of unrestricted economic license or that a rational planning of resource-distribution would contravene some vague and mystical 'American heritage'...) utterly contrary to fact and without the slightest foundation in human experience? Intellectually, the Republican idea deserves the tolerance and respect one gives to the dead.

H. P. Lovecraft

JimV said...

Don't forget Cheney's 2% (or was it 1%?) solution for foreign policy risks.

I still can't believe Lieberman let him get away with, "Yeah, and not a dime of it came from the government" in their VP "debate". Like he would have been hired as a figure-head CEO without government contacts and influence.

Many of my friends and relatives are Republicans. There may be a gene (or several) for it. Those of us without it perceive their policies and emperors as unclothed. How can they not see it, we wonder.

How doctor olu help me to increase my penis size said...

Hello everyone. I was heartbroken because i had very small penis, not nice to satisfy a woman, i had so many relationship called off because of my situation, i have used so many product which i found online but none could offer me the help i searched for. i saw some few comments about this specialist called Dr OLU and decided to email him on drolusolutionhome@gmail.com
so I decided to give his herbal product a try. i emailed him and he got back to me, he gave me some comforting words with his herbal pills for Penis t, Enlargement Within 5 day of it, i began to feel the enlargement of my penis, ” and now it just 2 weeks of using his products my penis is about 10 inches longer and am so happy..feel free to contact DR OLU on(drolusolutionhome@gmail.com)or whatsapp him on this number +2348140654426  





How doctor olu help me to increase my penis size said...

Hello everyone, am very happy to share this little awesome testimony about Dr olu a great herbal doctor who help me enlarge my penis size.3.2 cm to 8.3 cm longer with his herbal cream mixture, my girlfriend is now so amazed with the autonomous size of my penis , if you you are also in need of help on how to enlarge your penis to become bigger and stronger I adverse you to contact Dr on his email (drolusolutionhome@gmail.com) ) you or contact on whatsapp number +2348140654426 because he is one of the best herbal doctor that i can only show you up to, if your penis is 4.2 cm and want to get it reach 9.2 cm within three weeks i Dr olu is also specialized on obey m breast and boobs enlargement i advise you to contact him for help    






























Hello everyone, am very happy to share this little awesome testimony about Dr olu a great herbal doctor who help me enlarge my penis size.3.2 cm to 8.3 cm longer with his herbal cream mixture, my girlfriend is now so amazed with the autonomous size of my penis , if you you are also in need of help on how to enlarge your penis to become bigger and stronger I adverse you to contact Dr on his email (drolusolutionhome@gmail.com) ) you or contact on whatsapp number +2348140654426 because he is one of the best herbal doctor that i can only show you up to, if your penis is 4.2 cm and want to get it reach 9.2 cm within three weeks i Dr olu is also specialized on obey m breast and boobs enlargement i advise you to contact him for help    
























DR. AZIBA HERBAL CURE HOME said...

I got my penis Enlarged with the help of Dr AZIBA PENIS ENLARGEMENT PRODUCT contact him now on how you can get same product to enlarge your penis and make it stronger and bigger. Email : Priestazibasolutioncenter@gmail.com Or WhatsApp : +2348100368288
































DR. AZIBA HERBAL CURE HOME said...

I got my penis Enlarged with the help of Dr AZIBA PENIS ENLARGEMENT PRODUCT contact him now on how you can get same product to enlarge your penis and make it stronger and bigger. Email : Priestazibasolutioncenter@gmail.com Or WhatsApp : +2348100368288


























Robert Seaman said...

I contracted hpv' i was told there is no hpv cure except treatment to control it, i totally lost of hope all i could think loosing my life because it was so embarrass for been hpv patient. some weeks ago i read possible natural cure which was guarantee And I ordered the treatment after one week i got 100% cure. I'm so excited to shear this testimony to every article for others living with hpv there is possible natural treatment to eliminate the virus email Dr Onokun, his herbal clinic address; Dronokunherbalcure@gmail.com

glory robert said...

Hello everyone reading this testimony. I have been rejected by my husband after three(3) years of marriage just because another woman had a spell on him and he left me and the kid to suffer. One day when I was reading through the web, I saw a post on how this spell caster Dr irosi have help a woman to get back her husband and I gave him a reply to his address and he told me that a woman had a spell on my husband and he told me that he will help me and after 3 days that I will have my husband back. I believed him and today I am glad to let you all know that this spell caster have the power to bring lovers back because I am now happy with my husband. Thanks for His great work here is his email: drirosisolutioncenter@gmail.com Or call his number  +2348118829771, Contact Dr irosi and get your relationship problem solved. Great Dr irosi could also help you with the following:
1) Love Spells
2) Lost Love Spells
3) Divorce Spells
4) Marriage Spells
5) Binding Spell.
6) Breakup Spells
7) Banish a past Lover
8.) You want to be promoted in your office/ Lottery spell
9) want to satisfy your lover
Contact this great man if you are having any problem for a lasting solution
EMAIL..... drirosisolutioncenter@gmail.com

glory robert said...

Hello everyone reading this testimony. I have been rejected by my husband after three(3) years of marriage just because another woman had a spell on him and he left me and the kid to suffer. One day when I was reading through the web, I saw a post on how this spell caster Dr irosi have help a woman to get back her husband and I gave him a reply to his address and he told me that a woman had a spell on my husband and he told me that he will help me and after 3 days that I will have my husband back. I believed him and today I am glad to let you all know that this spell caster have the power to bring lovers back because I am now happy with my husband. Thanks for His great work here is his email: drirosisolutioncenter@gmail.com Or call his number +2348118829771 Contact Dr irosi and get your relationship problem solved.    

Robert Olivia said...

I am really happy that i have been cured from (HERPES SIMPLEX VIRUS) with the herbal medicine of Dr OSAGIE , i have been suffering from this disease for the past 3 years and 4 mouth without solution until i came across the email of this doctor who have cure so many people with his herbal medicine, i also choose to give him a chance to help me and my husband, he told me what to do and i kindly did it, and he gave us his herbal medicine and direct me on how to use it, i also follow his instructions for use and he ask us to go for a check up after 1 week and 5days which i did, to my greatest surprise our result came out as negative, we are really happy that there is someone like this doctor who is ready to help anytime any day. To all the readers and viewers that is doubting this testimony stop doubting it and contact this doctor if you really have one and see if he will not actually help you. i am not a stupid woman that i will come out to the public and start saying what someone have not done for me and i know that there are some people out there who are really suffering and hurting their family just because of these diseases so you can to mail him on drosagiesolutiontemple@gmail.com OR
DROSAGIESOULTIONTEMPLE@YAHOO.COM or WHATSAPP +2347030465649 he also told me that he has cure for these diseases listed below .
HERPES SIMPLEX VIRUS.
.DIABETES .
CANCER
.HEPATITIS
.HIV/AIDS
Thank you for your time

COMPOSITE CYBER SECURITY SPECIALISTS said...



☑️☑️COMPOSITE CYBER SECURITY SPECIALISTS ☑️☑️

•• Are you Seeking for the Best Legit Professional Hackers online?
Congratulations Your search ends right here with us. •• ⚡️⚡️

☑️☑️For Years Now We have Been helping companies secure there Infrastructures against malicious Attacks, however private individuals have been making use of our services to provide Optimum solutions to their cyber and Hacking related Issues by providing them unlimited Access to their desired informations from their Target such as Phone Hack (Which enables them to monitor their kids/wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend, by gaining access to everything they are doing on their phone without their notice), Credit Card Mishaps, Website Hacking, Funds Recoveries And Every Other Cyber Related Issues That has to Do With HACKING.

☑️☑️COMPOSITE CYBER SECURITY SPECIALISTS is a vibrant squad of dedicated online hackers maintaining the highest standards and unparalleled professionalism in every aspect.
We Are One Of The Leading Hack Teams In The United States With So Much Accolades From The Deep Web And IT Companies. ••
••We Offer Varieties Of LEGIT Hacking Services With the Help Of Our Root HackTools, Special HackTools and Our Technical Hacking Strategies Which Surpasses All Other Hackers.

☑️ Below Is A Full List Of Our Services:
▪️ FUNDS RECOVERY ON SCAM INVESTMENTS, BINARY OPTIONS TRADING and ALL TYPES OF SCAMS.
▪️ WEBSITE AND DATABASE HACKING πŸ’»
▪️ CREDIT REPAIR. πŸ’³
▪️ PHONE HACKING & CLONING (giving you πŸ“± Unnoticeable access to everything Happening on the Target’s Phone)
▪️ CLEARING OF CRIMINAL RECORDS ❌
▪️ SOCIAL MEDIA ACCOUNTS HACKING πŸ“±
▪️RECOVERY OF DELETED FILES πŸ“€
▪️LOCATION TRACKING πŸ“Œ
▪️BITCOIN MINING ⛏ And lot More.


☑️We have a team of seasoned PROFESSIONALS under various skillsets when it comes to online hacking services. Our company in fact houses a separate group of specialists who are productively focussed and established authorities in different platforms. They hail from a proven track record and have cracked even the toughest of barriers to intrude and capture all relevant data needed by our Clients. Some Of These Specialist Includes ⭐️ DAWID CZAGAN⭐️ JACK CABLE ⭐️ SEAN MELIA ⭐️ ARNE SWINNEN ⭐️And More. All you Need To do is To Write us a Mail Then We’ll Assign any of These Hackers To You Instantly.

☑️COMPOSITE CYBER SECURITY SPECIALISTS is available for customer care 24/7. Feel Free to Place your Requests.

☑️☑️CONTACT:
••• Email:
composite.cybersecurity@protonmail.com

πŸ”˜2020 © composite cybersecurity specialists
πŸ”˜Want faster service? Contact us!
πŸ”˜All Rights Reserved ®️.

susanwilliam said...

Herpes Virus is a terrible virus, if not for my Husband and the help of the great Dr.Alabi my life would have been a mess! I was diagnose with Herpes virus in 2012, my husband encouraged me, and told me not to lose hope, I manage to give birth to a baby Boy who was free from this virus, and my Husband was always there for me! One day he came to me and told me that he have found a man who can cure me. Base on scientist, they said there is no cure for Herpes virus; he told me that he has seen many testimonies about him on the internet. We decided to contact him, we filled his Herbal home form, and he asked us to buy some local root and herbs items which we did! and he prepared for me a herbal medicine and 14 days later he asked me to go for medical test, faithfully hopefully i went for the medical test, and Behold, I was cured, from this virus and its was not found in my Body system again... My Dear Husband and my Father Dr.Alabi, God will surely bless the both of you, till the end of time, in Jesus name.. If you have any problem kindly contact Dr Alabi via his email (Dr.Alabiherbalhome@yahoo.com) or whatsapp him on +1{810}4982897 for any kind of help......

Isabella Lucas said...

My ex-husband and I had always managed to stay friendly after our divorce in February 2017. But I always wanted to get back together with him, All it took was a visit to this spell casters website last December, because my dream was to start a new year with my husband, and live happily with him.. This spell caster requested a specific love spell for me and my husband, and I accepted it. And this powerful spell caster began to work his magic. And 48 hours after this spell caster worked for me, my husband called me back for us to be together again, and he was remorseful for all his wrong deeds. My spell is working because guess what: My “husband” is back and we are making preparations on how to go to court and withdraw our divorce papers ASAP. This is nothing short of a miracle. Thank you Dr Emu for your powerful spells. Words are not enough. here is his Email: emutemple@gmail.com or call/text him on his WhatsApp +2347012841542

He is also able to cast spell like 1: Lottery 2: Conceive 3: Breakup 4: Divorce 5: Cure for all kinds of diseases and viruses.

Angel charls said...

This was a way to allow people to bear more risk and send lots of money to financial service providers.
for more information go to Yahoo Bellen

Anonymous said...

People actually believe there is no cure for herpes due to what our medical Doctor do always say to us..but now i know that there is a cure for it Through herbal remedy' i and my boyfriend was once haven herpes type 1&2 i contacted Dr Edidia for herbal treatment and he prepared us some herbs which we takes for some couples of days, and we take it as he says before i am to known' i and my boyfriend was perfectly cure for it and never experience the Outbreaks again. please friends if you have herpes virus and you really want to get rid of it permanently, Kindly contact this great Dr Edidia for herbal treatment and you will get rid of it.. truly truly home remedies works perfectly. EMAIL dredidiaherbalhome@gmail.com cell phone contact +2349074505296 his whatsapp contact is +2349074505296.

Michelle Robinson said...


Hello viewers, I have been a victim of the Herpes virus for 11months. One day i was in a mall when I meant a friend of mine that once knew that i was suffering from same problem with hers and she introduce me to a man called Dr Okorom that have cure her Herpes virus with the help of his traditional medicine I contacted him and he gave me the traditional herbal medicine to drink and after drinking it with his prescription he told me that after 2 weeks I will see the result of his traditional herbal medicine and today I am happy to say that Dr Okorom have used his traditional herbal medicine to cure my Herpes virus, and now I am happy to be alive life again today with my family, I am married with 2 kids, to all that feels my pain and will need to know more about this great traditional doctor here is his contact: dr.okoromspellhome@live.com or WhatsApp him via +33 6 05 81 04 88 i am sure he is the solution you have been waiting for so don't let this opportunity pass you by okay.

google bit coin said...

You post an awesome article.

google casino tuition said...

Awesome content posted here.

google bit coin said...

The post is awesome.

google casino tuition said...

Really, It's a useful article.

google bit coin said...

Nice blog with useful post.

google casino tuition said...

Your post is very useful for me.