tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3621026.post2572523344380684268..comments2024-03-18T13:17:22.915+01:00Comments on Robert's Stochastic thoughts: Roberthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14455788499385673507noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3621026.post-50924658698869967672009-02-28T21:51:00.000+01:002009-02-28T21:51:00.000+01:00In order to understand where the money goes one mu...In order to understand where the money goes one must first understand "where the money goes" in short selling. That is the stuff hedge funds are made of. That's where. The losses go right back into your pocket. That is called trust and fiduciary self interest. Sheesh!. Dumb money has no idea how the system works or how to make a buck they just lose it. To find out where the money went, grill those individuals he did business with who represented their organizations. Takes two to tango. I think that the organizations took the hit but the agents of doom are skiing Zermatt twice a year.Jeseppi Trade Wildfeatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18309492149024079845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3621026.post-86618504097823090522008-12-18T18:05:00.000+01:002008-12-18T18:05:00.000+01:00"(why is taking money *out* cashing *in* ???)"Assu..."(why is taking money *out* cashing *in* ???)"<BR/><BR/>Assuming this is not rhetorical clearly Robert needs to spend more time at Vegas. Or given that he is in Italy maybe up the coast in Monte Carlo.<BR/><BR/>When playing a table game whether that be cards or roulette you cash your chips by pushing them in or towards the dealer or croupier. The player will announce he is 'cashing in' presumedly so that no one thinks he is betting it all.Bruce Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13222670342780912788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3621026.post-15596825084840151122008-12-17T17:51:00.000+01:002008-12-17T17:51:00.000+01:00Still, I have trouble understanding the number $50...Still, I have trouble understanding the number $50b. Reports say he had $17b under management. If he had $50b he would have had to find $5b a year to keep the thing going. Also losses (such as Santander's 3b seem to add to nearer to 17 than 50.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3621026.post-84219759837049399022008-12-17T06:33:00.000+01:002008-12-17T06:33:00.000+01:00Please see the article, "Who is Bernard Madof...Please see the article, "Who is Bernard Madoff, the man behind the $50 billion fraud?" at www.bollyn.info if you wish to see where much of the money in all likelihood went. In reading the article you can easily intuit why the question of where the money went is studiously avoided in most of the reporting and commentary by the mainstream media.<BR/><BR/>VCR & AMDGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3621026.post-85314610747111721162008-12-15T06:11:00.000+01:002008-12-15T06:11:00.000+01:00Kleiman seems to be confused by the concepts of 'c...Kleiman seems to be confused by the concepts of 'cash' vs 'wealth'. If everyone in Riverside Ca is convinced that their house is worth $600,000 and the market is clearing at $600,000 then a 1000 houses in the Inland Empire are well and truly worth $600 million. Which back in early 2006 could well and truly be converted into cash up to whatever portion of that $600 million was in excess of outstanding mortgage principle. On the other hand if all of a sudden the market is not clearing at levels above $350,000 those 1000 houses are well and truly worth only $350 million. If each and everyone of those homeowners had extracted each and every dollar of their equity then you could ask "Where is the money" but in the normal course of events this does not happen.<BR/><BR/>On any given day only a small fraction of a common stock will change hands. But everyone who holds that stock either gains or loses 'wealth' in exact proportion to the movement of the price. In this case it is just not true that every trade has an exact equivalent counter-party, a small tail can end up shaking a large dog to death.<BR/><BR/>Was that $50 billion dollars real money? Well it was just as real as unsecured deposits in a pre-FDIC bank in the 1920s. It was real until it turned to vapor. And in the end no one gained anything, depositors lost their balances and bankers jumped out the window.<BR/><BR/>"If it was stolen, then it must still be somewhere"<BR/>Well no, this is just to display an extraordinarily naive understanding of the relation of 'wealth' to 'money'. That the former is demoninated in the later does not by that alone give it existential reality.Bruce Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13222670342780912788noreply@blogger.com